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05/15/2000-CC-Minutes-Work SessionMINUTES: CITY COUNCIL on WORKSHOP MAY 159 2000 PRESENT: Mayor Tommy Kincaid, Councilman Andy Garza, Councilman Glenn Ervin, Councilman Joe Higgs, Councilman Craig Waggoner, Councilman Carroll McNeill OTHERS PRESENT: City Manager Jack Smith, City Secretary Rose Chavez, Woodrow Barton, Jack Biggerstaff, Rick Clements, Lynn Stucky, David Miller, Mike Lawler 1. Mayor Called Meeting to Order. 2. Discuss City's Involvement with the New High School Complex. Jack Biggerstaff addressed City Council to get some direction in regards to water, sewer and the road to the new high school. Mayor indicated commissioner Krueger had contacted him and advised he had $300,000.00 dedicated for Sanger and asked where the City would like the funds to be used. Mayor indicated he had advised Commissioner Krueger that he would like these funds dedicated for the school road if the monies were still available. Councilman Ervin asked Mr. Biggerstaff if the school had contacted Mr. Krueger. Mr. Biggerstaff advised they had contacted Mr. Krueger; however, there had not been a commitment in that regard. Mr. Biggerstaff indicated they were aware there were some available funds and he was hoping they could get as many people involved and as any entiti mes involved to offset the cost on the road. Mayor indicated that Commissioner Krueger did not indicated in their conversation that he was committing these funds to Sanger. Councilman Garza asked if the construction of the road was not is the bond package that was presented to the district's taxpayers. Mr. Biggerstaff indicated they took into consideration the cost of the bond package itself and what all they were going to need and the interest that would be earned off the bond proceeds to help offset the cost. Councilman Garza indicated that it would be better if it was spread out to the district's taxpayer's instead of just the city's taxpayers. Jack Biggerstaff responded that basically it would be coming out of the same pockets regardless. Mr. Biggerstaff indicated they will be doing that part of it anyway, even though it was not specifically included in the bond package. They anticipated what would be done would come from the interest earned on the bonds and that would be applied towards the road. It was beneficial to the school district not to include it in the bond package and raise the bond higher, knowing what they were going to get off the interest. Councilman Garza indicated he supported the road, however, personally felt he would rather pay as a district taxpayer than add it as a burden to the City's taxpayers. Jack Biggerstaff did not really think it was an issue on the road, the issue is really what kind of road. They have the money for a road. The issue is what kind of road. Councilman McNeill indicated the real issue is money. Jack Biggerstaff indicated that it will be a public road and the City's taxpayers should have some participation. Councilman McNeill responded that the taxpayers do participate, they pay for the school bond. He indicated he felt it should be equitable for everybody. Councilman Garza also agreed and felt it should be billed to the districts taxpayers. Jack Biggerstaff indicated again that he felt they have due to the interest they are earning off the bonds and the road they will put in. He indicated they want some consideration in the quality of the road, they cannot go above what they have. Mayor responded by indicating the school can pay for a two lane road, but the city wants a four lane road, he is asking the City and the county to get involved. Mayor emphasized it might benefit the city for future development to go further on the road. The school will be faced with the largest burden. The school will probably be faced with a 60% burden on the road and possibly the City 20% and the county 20%. Councilman McNeill indicated he was having a tough time understanding where fair and equitable becomes reality. Councilman McNeill explained that all participants in the school district are not citizens of Sanger. Mayor indicated that if the road is improved, development is bound to come as a result. Mayor indicated the city cannot quit planning because somebody does not follow through. Jack Biggerstaff indicated there have been some contributions in regards to the road. The original easement set up for the road from the school property to McReynolds's Road was originally set at 60 feet, negotiations he has had with Mr. Lane has expanded it to 76 feet, and it will go to 90 feet if they are able to put some sort of boulevard in there. They also have a 50 feet verbal easement from the property owner on the west side of the new high school. Councilman McNeill asked how many feet of road is the school talking about if the boulevard is put in. Jack Biggerstaff replied that from 455 to the property line is approximately 3700 feet. Councilman McNeill indicated the difference he was looking for, if the City is to participate on the street. Jack Biggerstaff indicated he is asking the City Council for consideration from the school's property line to McReynolds's Road. Which is approximately 2450 feet or 2500 and the total length of it is approximately 5500 feet. It i feet,s a little over a mile. Council Higgs asked if the City cannot help with the road the school is still going to put a road. Jack Biggerstaff indicated the school will put a road in. Councilman Higgs asked if there would be left hand turn lanes on each end. Jack Biggerstaff advised that they have been in discussion with TXDOT concerning 455, there will be accelerative zones and left turn lanes on 455. They think that TXDOT will help, and all the traffic will be on to that road. He then indicated what they will need particularly by the high school, a three lane, one North, one South and one in the middle. Councilman Higgs asked if they had a cost. Jack Biggerstaff indicated they did not, but if they do not get help they will go with an asphalt road with three lanes. Councilman Garza inquired if the boulevard is done, would it be concrete. Jack Biggerstaff indicated it would be. Councilman Ervin asked if it would be a City street. Mr. Biggerstaff indicated it would be a public road and connect to FM 455 and McReynolds Road. Mayor indicated it would be a City street once it is taken into the City limits. A question was asked as to when the City would annex the property. City Council members indicated they would take it in as soon as the road is in. Councilman McNeill expressed that he was not opposed to the plan, but would like to see more academics, and less athletics; however, that is neither here nor there. Mr. McNeill continued by stating he wants what's best for Sanger and the citizens of Sanger. Councilman McNeill indicated the City does not have pot of money, and does not know where the City will get the money. Councilman Higgs asked if they knew the difference as far as cost. Mr. Biggerstaff indicated the best he could tell them is they are looking at a storm drainage, 4 lane, curb &gutter, six inch concrete, estimated at a million dollars. Mr. Biggerstaff indicated the road is reduced by one lane, then basically the concrete will be reduced, they can take away the curb & gutter and storm drainage then the cost would be reduced. Councilman Higgs expressed he felt the City should help as much as they could. Mayor agreed. Councilman Ervin indicated he felt the City should also help a little, otherwise the City will have problems later. Mr. Biggerstaff indicated he respects what Councilman McNeill stated; however, they have not seen any ground turned concerning developing, but the people he has talked to about getting the easement widened, and getting a donation from the property owner are anticipating development. Jerry Schertz indicated anytime you put a school in, houses start popping up. Councilman McNeill asked in regards to the other new school, where are the new houses there? Jerry Schertz responded that there was not any land there for development. Discussion led to where the money would come from. Councilman Garza expressed concerns that a citizen had expressed to him that the City will be "double dipping" the citizens. Councilman Higgs asked what does that mean? Councilman Garza explained the citizens pay district taxes and some wilt have to turn around and pay city taxes as well. Mayor indicated he agreed, but if is taken into the City, the road will be the responsibility of Sanger, it will bring development a side and would not be "double dipping". Discussion on development of streets. Mayor gave an example; Jeff McNeill is building a street in his subdivision, and it will eventually be taken into the City, and become the City's responsibility. This street is just a two lane. Mayor continued that if the City paid for a part of this road, the school could get a 4 lane, and if 20% to 30% was the City's share, and then the other side develops, the City then comes out cheaper than the street that Jeff McNeill will build. Councilman Garza explained the exception is that Jeff will pay for his own street. Discussion on the street and how it will help with traffic flow. Councilman Garza asked if the state could help with the cost. Mr. Biggerstaff indicated the state will not help with any part; where the state will play a big role is on 455, and he thinks that it will be no charge to the school district. Discussion on possibly passing cost to developers. Mr. McNeill explained the cost could not be passed to developers, if the person who has the land is giving the R.O.W. to the person who buys the land, how can that person be charged? Councilman Higgs referred to Allen, Texas ,where half of the boulevard is put in, the school does that part, and if Sable wants to develop the other, he would have to put the other half of the road before he could ever develop his property. Councilman McNeill agrees that this could be done. Discussed left turn lane and the boulevard. Mr. Biggerstaff indicated there are a lot of things to consider if the City does not take this, the width of this is basically 100 feet, it could be done with 90 feet and they have a 100 feet. 50 feet from the school and 50 feet from Sable. Mr. Biggerstaff indicated they could take the 50 feet, make it two lanes, and if Sable wants to develop it he can. Councilman McNeill indicated that earlier in the meeting he had asked about the width, and they had indicated 60 feet, 76 feet, and 90 feet. Mr. Biggerstaff indicated from their southern property line to McReynolds's Road on Mr. Lane's property and in their discussion with Mr. Lane, he will expand it to 76 feet and if a boulevard is put in he will go to 90 feet. Councilman McNeill asked where the 100 feet came from. Mr. Biggerstaff indicated that the 100 feet is what they have negotiated with Mr. Sable which is 50 feet. Discussed the problem with only two lanes and the turn lane. Mr. Biggerstaff summarized by saying that the City and school have to make a ,joint effort. There are some things their board needs to consider and look at in lieu of what the City might be doing in regards to a road. Mr. Biggerstaff indicated that they have one of the best softball fields in the state that is accessible and right by the City's property at the existing high school. Mr. Biggerstaff indicated when the Middle School is moved up there, they are not going to need that property. This might be a consideration in regards to the field. Mr. Biggerstaff indicated there are a lot of things that can be done if the City and school can put there minds together to see what can be done. He indicated there will be a lot of comments about why this was not included in the bond issue, which will make it look like the school board did not think of it. Mr. Biggerstaff assured everyone it was considered and the road will be out there. Councilman McNeill asked how many square feet the school building will have. Mr. Biggerstaff indicated 187,000 square feet. Councilman Higgs asked Mr. Biggerstaff since they have talked to the state about two lanes, can he possibly talk to the state about making that a three or four lane all the way back to town. Mr. Biggerstaff indicated he was not sure how far that goes, but it will go a ways to the deceleration lane. The acceleration lane will be at least 100 yards. It will not be that close and it is pretty far down there. They will have to get it to where there is not so much traffic going 455 east. Councilman Higgs cated that on the City's thoroughfare plan, which was presented earlier, (at a previous workshop) included 455 and McReynolds's Road. It was discussed then to make it a 150 feet R.O.W. on 455 and McReynold's was 90 feet or 100 feet. Mark Hill indicated it was probably 100 feet, be could not see it as being a major thoroughfare, but it could be. Discussion regarding current RO.W. on 455. Mark Hill indicated that now is a good time to look at the thoroughfare plan for the City, since it is in the planning process, before it is adopted. This is how the City gets the RO.W. before the property is developed. The thoroughfare plan will indicate the R.O.W. Discussion continued on the traffic flow off McReynolds's Road, and where the money can come from. Mr. Barton explained that as development comes that revenues will increase to help pay for the road. Mr. Barton indicated that everybody pays sales tax. Discussion regarding the increase in taxes as development comes. Mr. Barton indicated that the County is in their budget process for this next year. The County is growing, so is the tax base and there will be an increase in revenues. They have an engineering firm, Innovative Transportation System, that does a lot of work for them. The county is working with the State. They pay them out of their budget so much money, and it looks to him that some monies could be saved by having the County have these people design the road for the City and school, which is one way the County can contribute, other than the $300,000.00 for construction. Mr. Barton indicated they need to be talking to the County Commissioner about participating in this project. Mr. Biggerstaff indicated they have been working with then and TXDOT, and all of that work has been done by ITS. Discussion regarding sales tax revenues. City Manager indicated that there will be additional sales tax, so there will not have to be additional ad valorem tax. The sales tax revenues were discussed, and that these revenues were to be used for street improvements. City Secretary and Councilman McNeill indicated that in the minutes there was no action taken on these funds being designated for street improvements. City Secretary explained that these revenues go into operating revenues for the General Fund, Councilman Ervin asked how much money is left on the bond they have on 10"' Street. City Secretary indicated there is about $3,000.00. Discussion continued on the importance this road could be to Sanger. The business that could be built eventually will benefit Sanger by bringing additional tax base and sales tax. Mayor agreed. Discussion followed on the sales tax revenues. Councilman Higgs indicated if it was designated for streets it could be designated for that road. Councilman McNeill's response was that if those revenues are taken from the General Fund, now will the City replace the $10,000.00 spent each month, if the City does not have to put back in with some other monies. City Manager expressed that everyone is for the school, nobody is opposing, the concern is where can the monies be found and now will the City be able to pay it back. Then now would you explain to the citizens, that you have put them deeper in debt. Discussion continued again regarding the sales tax, and that they are not designated just for streets. Concerns were expressed regarding can the City pay for part of the project. Councilman Garza indicated he felt the people of Sanger should have some say on this issue. Rick Clements indicated that they An have a say, and that is why they elected him. Councilman Garza expressed that he wants what is best for the City of Sanger and if they have a bond proposed to the citizens of Sanger, that would be the way to go. Councilman Garza indicated he was for the project. His concern is where will the funds come from, and how can they sell this to the citizens of Sanger. Discussion followed on water and sewer. City Manager indicated the City will not be supplying the electric. The electricity was discussed; however, it is not in the City's certification area. Mayor explained that he feels that our electric utility should furnish the power and he is willing to go to court. Mayor felt that once the property is annexed, that gives the City that jurisdiction. Councilman McNeill indicated for water and sewer, the City will have enough easement along the west side of the road, running it all the way from one end to the other. The water line will be extended from the water tower. The sewer will be started along the other side of McReynolds's Road, and that is where it will be tied in. Eddie Branham indicated the sewer has a natural fall from the school property all the way back to McReynolds's and once they got back to McReynolds's it has a natural fall back to the line. There was concern expressed on how much rock there will be. Jeff Morris indicated he went six feet deep on a pole, and did not have any problem with rock. Councilman McNeill asked if they came up with an estimated footage. City Manager indicated he was not sure, but possibly at least a 1.5 miles of sewer and a mile of water line. Mark Hill indicated the size of the line for sewer would possibly be twelve or fifteen inches. The water line is different and should be a twelve inch minimum, they are over sizing it to make sure they have plenty of pipeline to get water North. City Manager indicated the cost for the pipe would be $150,000.00. Mark Hili indicated that they are looking at $500,000.00 cost for water and $500,000.00 for sewer. Councilman Higgs indicated if the land to the west ever develops, they can recoup part of the cost. Jack Biggerstaff asked if there had been any consideration given as to the cost to the school district for water and sewer. Councilman Higgs asked what he meant. Jack Biggerstaff asked if consideration had been given as to the school's districts cost on water and sewer. Discussion on the size of waterline for the school. Mark Hill indicated as far as the City is concerned, a twelve inch minimum will be required for water and sewer, which will allow for that type of development and for fire protection and such. This will be his his recommendation to the City Council. He will also recommend to City Council to oversize the line for future development, which will be at the City's cost. Discussion on the size of line. Jack Biggerstaff indicated that the reason he was asking on water and sewer is because it will certainly have a great impact on what they do with the road. Mayor indicated that there might be a need for some trading. Jack Biggerstaff indicated he will be glad to set a time and meet jointly with the City Council. Councilman McNeill indicated that the City Manager and Mrs. Rose need to check the books and see where the funds could be allocated. Councilman McNeill indicated he agreed with Councilman Garza and he visited with a lot of people and they have expressed to him that they are paying now, and now they have to pay again, and it concerns him. Mayor asked the school to allow them to get the figures. Discussion regarding a joint meeting with the City Council. Jack Biggerstaff will get with the City Manager and set a date and time. Councilman Ervin asked if they could possibly invite the County Commissioner. This will allow them to see some figures. Mayor indicated that maybe they could get a commitment on what the County will do. Discussion followed on the street cost and if they have received an exact bid on cost being a million dollars. Councilman McNeill indicated someone needs to get exact cost on the street and possibly a million dollars will be enough. Jack Biggerstaff indicated a million dollars is real close. They have done all the research. 3. Meeting Adjourned. ATTEST: Rosalie